Vaping Mythbuster: The restricted air discussion

Discussion in 'Flavor Chaser' started by Anthony_Vapes, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Anthony_Vapes

    Anthony_Vapes Staff Member Moderator 3 year member reviewer Weekly Referral Winner

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    I wanted to have a little discussion about the restricted air in atomizers as i hear a lot of different perspectives on it. some say it gives less flavor, some say it gives more flavor and increases density and velocity. There is some to be said of both sides of the argument for sure. To start the discussion i'd like to look more at the practical use of air in other applications and what's been proven on it.

    Some say that reducing the air leads to better performance, to discuss this i'd like to take it to something that's more factual and discuss engines. Turbo chargers have often been used to increase power in engines. the simple reason is they do so by forcing more air into the engine then your normal air intake would provide. there are downsides but i want to keep things simple so we'll leave that out for now but can discuss later. I think the "turbo charger theory" is why this is believed to be true. However this is powered by a turbine. In vaping the airflow is powered by your ability to inhale which will be much more limited. So for this i'm going to tell a story. I once had a customer bring a generator to my shop. his complaint was that the generator wouldn't start. Much like a car you press a button or flip a switch and it starts.

    He told me about all his awesome knowledge and troubleshooting and what he thinks it could be and the hours he spent trying to figure it out before he gave up. So i went ahead and tried to start it and i could hear the engine was starving for fuel or air. So i said watch this. I pulled out the air filter which was dirty as hell and flipped the start switch with no air filter in it and it started up right away. the issue was the air was too restricted. it didn't increase performance, it literally stopped it from working. all he needed was a service (oil and filter change). Often the correct answer is the simplest solution. anyone who has driven with a dirty air filter then replaced it would notice a difference in performance in their car. So the idea that restricting of air creates higher performance is in itself something that has been proven to not be true as a whole.

    When going for top performance in engines the most HP comes from having a larger engine, more air, and more fuel consumed to create the horsepower. The more efficient vehicles will use less air to use less fuel and have smaller engines and less horse power. The reason for stating this is a baseline. while reducing the air in vaping allows for a smaller build to be useful and less juice consumed it's not going to have the same performance. You wouldn't expect a Prius to beat a V8 mustang in a drag race. but the Prius will drive around a lot longer on a tank of gas. Does that mean 1 is better then the other? not at all. it all comes down to preference at the end of the day. some would prefer to drive around a V8 300Hp car and others would prefer to drive around a fuel efficient hybrid. There is no right or wrong, only preference. In the same sense the engine (or build for vaping) should match the vehicle (or atomizer for vaping) you wouldn't put a 4 cylinder 150HP engine in a for F550 and you wouldn't put a V12 500HP engine in a prius. It all works the same way

    The point of this example and thread is to say that in vaping blanket statements are rarely true if ever as there are many factors at play in each scenario. so the idea of restricted air being better flavor could be true in some cases, it's not always true. It depends on other variables, but all variables aside the bigger engine will always pump out more HP then the smaller engine unless it's poorly designed.

    I'd love to hear thoughts from other vapers as well :)
     
  2. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post!!

    ;)
    I agree except for this:

    Oh hell yes I would.
    V8 with a custom tube sub frame, tubbed.
    :p
    Just to torture the rice racers.


    "There is no replacement for displacement"
    - Carrol Shelby
    He took a tiny 4cyl british 2 seater, shoved a side oiler big block in it and dominated the world of racing so decisively they changed the rules.
    Then he did it again....




    Airflow on an RDA, IMHO needs to be "tuned" to your vape style by referencing where the coil sits inside the atty and where the air ports are located.

    In my experience, coil position in relation to the airflow holes are more important for flavor than port size.
    The volume determines the clouds, but coil position will have a much more dramatic effect on flavor, especially with high airflow RDAs.
     
  3. chucKing

    chucKing Member

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    I liked the example. At first when you were talking about turbos and air filters I thought you were going to try to make a direct comparison to vaping, and was having a hard time seeing how it applied. But as analogies they did work, and then you finished very strong with the muscle vs hybrid example.

    To bring it back to vaping, I think you can get great flavor from a restricted airflow single coil RTA, like your favorite the SMM . Or you can get great flavor from a big airflow dual-coil RDA like the Kennedy. To keep with the car analogy, like you said, the "engine" definitely needs to fit the chassis/body. You may be able to use a 28g roundwire for great flavor in a Kayfun, but don't think you'd get that same flavor from the RDA using those coils. Throw a couple big old fused claptons in it though and you can definitely rival the flavor output.

    Another thing is the power you put through it though. A newer vaper might say "I'm a 40w vaper, because that gives me great flavor in my Pharaoh Mini." Then they might try to put the same wattage through dual claptons on an RDA and say it sucks. Maybe we could use gas as our example here. You can't get great performance in a race car with just a single gallon of gas, even though you had a wonderful trip across the state in your hybrid on that same gallon. If you're going to use a big ass engine, you're going to need to use a lot of fuel too.

    In the end I'm just reiterating a lot of your points, and in the end I think your conclusion is correct too. You can't simply say that one variable will always lead to the same result across all atomizers, because there's so many variables: chamber size and shape, coil type and number, airflow amount and velocity, closeness of coils to airflow and coils to mouth, etc., etc.

    Very interesting discussion though, thanks for the post!

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  4. ParaTech

    ParaTech What's the DEAL? Moderator

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    I think the largest majority of us started on smaller vape gear like EGO style and earlier but since I now use things like Aromamizer Plus and Titan, my opinion of a tight draw may be a bit biased.
    I like lots of air and big ass coils.
    My wife uses the smaller setups but when I try them, they make me cough.
    I agree it is indeed simply perspective and personal preference.
    THAT is one of the awesome things about vaping, there is something for everyone.
     
  5. Anthony_Vapes

    Anthony_Vapes Staff Member Moderator 3 year member reviewer Weekly Referral Winner

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    depending on the atty the coil position will play a part for sure in terms of turbulence and the ability of the air to cool it off
     
  6. Anthony_Vapes

    Anthony_Vapes Staff Member Moderator 3 year member reviewer Weekly Referral Winner

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    excellent post. If you wanted to get into gas you could say the quality. race cars need high octane gas while many production vehicles will run off of regular 87. it depends on the compression ratio. high compression performance engines need higher octane fuel. for me 2 of my cars needs 91 while my truck runs off 87. on a side note. diesel fuel sucks nowadays with the ULS requirements it's extremely dry. many diesels would run better if you added oil into the fuel like you would a 2 stroke engine but that's not legal lol
     
  7. Anthony_Vapes

    Anthony_Vapes Staff Member Moderator 3 year member reviewer Weekly Referral Winner

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    yes indeed. there is something for everything. doing reviews lets me compare that pretty well. hell today i have 4 set ups with me

    rabox mini with ares MTL RTA
    alpha one with boreas V2 dual coil DTL RTA
    Gaia with OBS crius 2 single coil DTL RTA
    Liasmo F4 and Aromamizer titan 41mm DTL RTA for the lolz

    a little of every style
     
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  8. Kprthevapr

    Kprthevapr 3 year member Weekly Referral Winner

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    All of my rdas are built the same lol
    One has no adjustable air flow, it has six air holes with a goon style deck, it vapes beautifully at 55w on my Nano. The others are Goons, all built with stainless steel wire. All of em are at .20 and used on mech mods.
    I'm not a tank user, at all. It took a bit of getting use to, but I love my air flow, flava, and big ass clouds!
     
  9. Kprthevapr

    Kprthevapr 3 year member Weekly Referral Winner

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    Who needs turbo when you have a small block 350 in your VW Bug?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  10. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja Well-Known Member

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    Love the car analogies.

    This is like paralell coils on a dripper sitting on a stacked mech tube.


    104 octane drinking 400hp carburated Toyota inline 6 cyl in a fully restored 73 FJ55 project.


    2 years and 44k in the resto job, 4k in the motor.
    Should be done by this summer.

    20161028_140101.jpg 20161028_140043.jpg 20170104_160336-1.jpg
     
  11. Anthony_Vapes

    Anthony_Vapes Staff Member Moderator 3 year member reviewer Weekly Referral Winner

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    nice! maybe one day when i'm old and retired i'll have time to do something like that lol
     
  12. ParaTech

    ParaTech What's the DEAL? Moderator

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    The longer you wait to start, the lower the odds are of it happening.
    At least that is what I say when i don't want to do something.
    Maybe it'll go away.
    haha
     
  13. Kprthevapr

    Kprthevapr 3 year member Weekly Referral Winner

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    We are just retired, you can leave the old shit out :p
     
  14. Anthony_Vapes

    Anthony_Vapes Staff Member Moderator 3 year member reviewer Weekly Referral Winner

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    very true, but you can only burn the candle at so many ends LMAO
    :emoji_clap:
     
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  15. Deucesjack

    Deucesjack 3 year member reviewer

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    I think is airflow discussion has a lot variables that have already been touched on. I think it all comes down to balance and personal preference. You have to find an atomizer that strikes a good balance for your personal way of vaping. I happen to be one of those vapers that likes to vape in different ways depending on my mood and circumstance. Yeah I like to chuck those big monstrous clouds but at the same time I can truly appreciate a solid MTL vape or a restricted DL hit.

    When it comes to the actual airflow discussion I think every manufacturer has to try to strike their own balance depending on what exactly the said atomizer was designed for and the market they are targeting. I tend to like single coil atomizers. I find that they run very efficiently, use less juice, without a very significant loss in flavor. Like the OP said though, that is not a rule just a general observation. I have had single coil atomizers that are juice suckers and that have muted flavor. Again, its all about balance. At the same time I have had monstrous airflow hogs that can chuck huge clouds but the flavor was muted because there was just to much air. Balance, its all about balance. IMO
     
  16. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja Well-Known Member

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    Semi-retired.
    It's not mine, it's a client/friends truck.
    We did a J100 jeep pickup truck with a 360 AMC V8 for him too.
     
  17. SnapDragon NY

    SnapDragon NY 3 year member Weekly Referral Winner

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    Yep- I started out vaping MTL with the Mistic Bridge Kits- then using the Kanger Evod2 tanks on the Innokin Itaste vv/vw and vaped that way for many months, yes to quit smoking, which I accomplished in 2 weeks- high nic(24)- tight draw- wispy puny clouds!
    Then the higher power mods and sub Tanks came out and wanted to up my vaping game and give DL a try almost 2 years ago with the Kanger Dripbox- no MTL there ,and have not looked back! Main reason why I joined the forums, better mod discussions and sub tanks,RDAs,RTAs,RDTAs- I wanted better flavor and better clouds all at better prices and hear others experiences with DL tanks.!
    I have lowered my nic to 3, higher vg- I have found that I cough less when I DL also! Just seems smoother vaping to me with better flavor and clouds-
    I did all of this to quit smoking not simulate it! I needed vaping to be better than cigarettes and DL made me feel that way!
    I am not gonna say one way or the other is the best way to vape, if you are happy with MTL excellent and I think most smokers looking to quit should try this way 1st and if you are happy with it and want to only vape this way that is excellent too!
    DL vaping was a game changer for me and I am enjoying vaping now more than ever! Cigarettes- yuck - in my 3 years of vaping, I couldn't imagine ever putting one of those back in my mouth again so I must be doing something right for me!
     
  18. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely all about "Balance".
     
  19. Deucesjack

    Deucesjack 3 year member reviewer

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    Just like most things in life.

    Happiness is not a matter of intensity but of balance, order, rhythm and harmony.

    - Thomas Merton

    @Anthony_Vapes I know he loves my quotes. Lmao.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     
  20. Bad Ninja

    Bad Ninja Well-Known Member

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    I do it too.

    "Better learn balance. Balance is key. Balance good, karate good. Everything good. Balance bad, better pack up, go home. Understand?
    Lesson not just karate only. Lesson for whole life. Whole life have a balance. Everything be better." - Mr. Miyagi


    :p
     

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